Spahn Ranch

[00:00:13] Welcome to Crime Time Inc where we, two former murder squad detectives take you beyond the headlines and into these investigations Every crime scene tells a story every piece of evidence reveals a truth Sometimes the most revealing cases are the ones we thought we knew all about Some episodes contain discussions of real crimes that may include graphic descriptions of violence

[00:00:40] criminal behavior and references of a sexual nature that some listeners may find disturbing The details presented are included for factual accuracy and to provide a complete understanding of the investigation as experienced by law enforcement Listener discretion is strongly advised Ein audible, original, true crime thriller Diese eine Nacht im Winter 2008

[00:01:10] Ein ungelöster Mord Es war alles genau wie damals, exakt genauso Eine Spur, die Jahrzehnte überdauert Der Anruf Ein Auto Es brennt Auf einem verlassenen Parkplatz Und ein Täter Der niemals aufhört Der Unterschied war aber Diesmal war ich die leitende Beamtin Jasmin Tabatabai Diesmal Werden wir keine Fehler machen Die Toten von Norden Jetzt nur bei Audible Wenn ihr Fans von True Crime und mehr seid Und ihr früher vielleicht sogar X-Faktor

[00:01:39] Das unfassbar geguckt habt Dann wird euch unser Grusel- und Mystery-Podcast Zum Mitraten Geschichten aus dem Altbau Sicher gefallen Josch und ich erzählen in jeder Folge Zwei gruselige oder übernatürliche Geschichten Und ihr dürft am Ende jeder Folge miträtseln Ob die Geschichten einen wahren Kern haben Oder ob wir uns die ausgedacht haben Die Auflösung gibt es dann immer in der Folge Episode Anhören tut sich das Ganze dann in etwas so Moin und herzlich willkommen bei Geschichten aus dem Altbau

[00:02:08] Ich bin was ganz perfidem auf der Spur Dem Grusel-Podcast mit dem X-Faktor Ihr lernt hier auch einfach was Voller schauriger Ereignisse Mysteriöser Vorkommnisse Und unerklärbare Phänomene Meine Geschichte trägt den Titel Quid.Quo Stubenarrest Du bist hier der Liebling Ich bin immer nur der zum Draufhauen Es war ihr Vater Ein magerschütternder Schreien vor jemand Er grinste sie an Ich sag du hast es ausgedacht Kann so eigentlich nicht passiert sein Die Geschichte ist falsch

[00:02:37] Das ist kein Wort Das sagt man so nicht Bis zur nächsten Geschichte aus dem Altbau Welcome back to Crime Time Inc. I'm Alex and I'm your host And today we're exploring how Charles Manson and his followers found their infamous home base Spahn Ranch

[00:03:03] A place that would become synonymous with one of the darkest chapters in California history Picture this

[00:03:28] It's 1968 and Manson's family is traveling in an old school bus that keeps breaking down When it happens again, one of his followers, Sandy Good, mentions she knows someone who might be able to fix it Someone who lives on a ranch about 35 miles northwest of Los Angeles What Manson found there would change everything Spahn Ranch was like stepping into an old TV western In fact, that's exactly what it was

[00:03:56] A former movie set where many of those classic 1950s cowboy shows were filmed Imagine hundreds of acres of rugged foothills and mountains With streams cutting through the landscape and caves dotting the hillsides At its heart stood a western town movie set Complete with storefronts and an authentic looking saloon The owner was George Spahn An elderly man in his 80s who could barely see

[00:04:22] He made his living renting horses to city folks looking for trail rides Just a dollar fifty to play cowboy for a day But the ranch was falling into disrepair And that's where Manson saw his opportunity His pitch to Spahn was masterful in its simplicity Manson and his friends would live there rent-free In exchange for maintaining the movie set and helping with the horses

[00:04:47] Manson claimed he had experience with horses from his days working at a racetrack in West Virginia But here's where it gets darker He also offered to have his female followers help take care of the elderly Spahn One of these women was Lynette Fromm She became Spahn's personal housekeeper And well, more than that Spahn gave her the nickname Squeaky because of the high-pitched sounds she'd make when he pinched her That name would stick with her for the rest of her life

[00:05:18] What started as a small group quickly grew Spahn expected maybe half a dozen people Instead, within months, there were around 35 family members living on the ranch Any other squatters who had been there before were gradually pushed out by Manson and his followers One of the first things Manson did after arriving was put Charles Tex Watson to work building shelters But here's the fascinating part Manson wouldn't grant Watson full family membership

[00:05:47] He kept him in a sort of psychological limbo Telling him he hadn't surrendered his ego enough to be a true member So Watson, often high on drugs, worked endless hours just trying to prove himself worthy The ranch's isolation was perfect for Manson's purposes Unlike at Dennis Wilson's house, where there were constant visitors and distractions Here Manson could lead his followers into remote canyons and preach for hours

[00:06:13] No outside influences, no competing voices Just Charlie's words echoing off the canyon walls But they weren't alone on the ranch There was a colorful crew of ranch hands Led by Juan Flynn, a towering Vietnam veteran Among them was Shorty Shea, who dreamed of making it in movies And a teenager named Steve Grogan, who the family nicknamed Scramblehead Because they thought he was mentally challenged

[00:06:40] Ironically, it was Grogan who would become one of Manson's most loyal followers Let me tell you about a defining moment at the ranch One day, Flynn, who expected the family to actually work for their keep Got into a confrontation with Manson Picture this Flynn, standing over a foot taller than Manson Charging at him in front of all his followers But Manson didn't flinch Instead, he calmly lit a cigarette Then held the burning match under his own wrist

[00:07:09] As the smell of burning flesh filled the air He looked Flynn in the eye and said softly You know, brother, there's no such thing as pain Daily life at the ranch was a mix of hard work And indoctrination The family would make regular trips into Los Angeles Scrounging food from grocery store dumpsters Manson was still recruiting But now he was letting his followers do most of the initial work They'd bring potential members to the ranch

[00:07:38] Where he could evaluate them in this controlled environment By late 1968, Manson had developed a sophisticated system For bringing new members into the fold But here's the thing No one got in without something to offer Money, cars, useful skills Manson always looked for the angle And if you think getting in was hard Staying in was even harder New recruits were placed under the supervision Of veteran members like Patricia Krenwinkel Susan Atkins

[00:08:08] Or Lynette Squeaky Fromm Think of it as a twisted sort of apprenticeship But here's the dark part If these newcomers only had material possessions to offer Once Manson got what he wanted They'd find themselves quickly shown the door One of Manson's most calculating moves Was his rule about money No female family member was allowed to carry any cash Not even pennies Now this might sound strange

[00:08:35] But it was actually a common control tactic used by pimps The logic was brutal in its simplicity Without money, women couldn't make a phone call home Or buy a bus ticket to escape During this period, the family kept growing Among the new arrivals were Catherine Capistrano Gillies And Leslie Van Houten Van Houten's case was particularly interesting Initially, Manson wanted to turn her away She was too intelligent for his liking

[00:09:03] Smart people, you see, might question his teachings But Van Houten had something valuable to offer She was a skilled secretary who could take shorthand Manson put her to work recording his song lyrics Even making her spell out the sounds he would make When he wasn't using actual words In a fascinating twist A staff member from the Haight-Ashbury Free Clinic Alan Rose Spent several weeks at the ranch Studying the group His observations

[00:09:32] Published later in the Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Laid bare Manson's methods Using sex to break down inhibitions Stripping followers of their possessions And maintaining control Through a careful balance of preaching Drugs and exhausting physical labor The big question Rose and his colleagues Couldn't fully answer was Why were these young people Especially the women So captivated by this disturbed mystic The day began early at Spahn Ranch

[00:10:00] 7 a.m. sharp First order of business Taking care of the horses These weren't just pets They were the ranch's main source of income Rented out to tourists Wanting to play cowboy for a day One day in 1968 Two young boys had rented horses When they heard a guy shouting loudly Charlie's up the hill Charlie's up the hill And it startled them About 20 minutes later As they were riding up the hill A trail of horses and riders Were coming towards them

[00:10:30] From the opposite direction They observed That in the middle of the pack Was a little man with dark dead eyes He wasn't holding his own reins The guy in front of him Was holding the reins The little man was staring blankly His head rocking with the movement of the horse And as if he was out of his mind The boys stared intently at the little man And when they had passed One of them said to the other That must be Charlie

[00:10:59] One of those boys went on to become One of the most famous drug dealers in the world At least in the TV world It was 12-year-old Brian Cranston Who went on to become the star of the hit show Breaking Bad After a quick breakfast Usually just leftovers from the night before The real work began Some family members would guide trail rides for visitors While others cleaned stalls and hauled hay But here's where it gets interesting When regular chores ran out

[00:11:28] Manson would create work just to keep everyone busy Sometimes it was as pointless As sweeping dust from wooden sidewalks in the movie set Or what some members described as literally Digging holes just to fill them again And if anyone dared complain They'd face the wrath of the true believers Especially Gypsy or Little Paul Who'd publicly shame them for questioning Charlie's wisdom The afternoons often took a darker turn

[00:11:56] This is when Manson would gather his followers for LSD sessions Picture this Manson personally placing tabs of acid on his followers' tongues Though tellingly he often stayed sober himself While they were tripping He'd preach about himself as Jesus Sometimes even acting out crucifixion scenes He called LSD holy Claiming it was the key to discovering your true self Dinner was a fascinating study in hierarchy Everyone had to attend

[00:12:26] But there was a strict order Men ate first Women got what was left Food came from garbage runs Women scavenging from grocery store dumpsters Sometimes the meals were bizarre One night they just passed around containers of Cool Whip Everyone licking it off their fingers But the evenings This is when Manson's real programming took place He'd preach often with his guitar While the women danced He loved teaching in parables Like one particularly revealing story About a king and queen

[00:12:55] That perfectly illustrated his views on gender roles The message was clear In Manson's world Women served men Period This wasn't just preference He blamed society's problems On women having too much control The day would end with music Often Beatles' magical mystery tour Played over and over Or the moody blues But increasingly it was Manson Performing his own songs Making everyone join in on the choruses

[00:13:24] Music played a crucial role in family life Manson had strict control Over what could be played During their evening gatherings The Beatles' magical mystery tour Was in heavy rotation Along with the moody blues Steppenwolf's Born to be Wild Was the only contemporary hit allowed Despite his personal appreciation For bands like the Doors and Jefferson Airplane Manson banned them from these gatherings A small but telling example Of his need to control

[00:13:52] Every aspect of his followers' lives But music was just the beginning Manson employed a variety Of psychological techniques To maintain his control One of the most bizarre Was what we might call The mirror game Whenever a family member Passed Manson on the ranch's Wooden sidewalks He would stop them And perform a series Of facial expressions And hand gestures The follower had to mirror These movements perfectly Failure to do so Meant you still had

[00:14:21] Too much ego And needed correction It was a brilliant form Of psychological manipulation Simple yet effective Manson understood the power Of both punishment and praise He had an uncanny ability To sense exactly how much Criticism each follower Could take before breaking Just when someone Reached their limit He'd suddenly show warmth A private walk A friendly chat A gentle touch on the shoulder This cycle of criticism And comfort

[00:14:49] Created powerful emotional bonds The family also engaged In what Manson called Group fantasies Running around the movie set Playing cowboys or pirates Some of the women Would pretend to be Fairies or elves And during LSD sessions Manson would suggest That such transformations Might actually be possible Someday These seemingly innocent games Served a purpose They further separated His followers from reality Creating a shared fantasy world

[00:15:18] Where only his rules applied One of Manson's Most radical rules Concerned children He insisted that No child should be raised By their biological parents Even within the family Every child belonged to everyone This included his own son With Mary Brunner Known as Pooh Bear And other children Born into the group When Susan Atkins gave birth Her baby Named Zay-Zo-Zay-C Zadfrak Was immediately separated From her

[00:15:48] Manson actively encouraged The women to get pregnant Calling it their natural state Though he himself fathered Only one child in the group But the rules went far beyond Family structure Manson banned watches Clocks And calendars Claiming he wanted his followers To live in the now Eyeglasses were forbidden If you couldn't see clearly Well that was your natural way Of viewing the world Even books were prohibited With Manson claiming Authors were trying to control People's minds

[00:16:18] Though he of course Kept a bible for himself Perhaps the most revealing Aspects of life at the ranch Were Manson's contradictions He presented himself As the reincarnation of Jesus While spouting Anti-Semitic rhetoric He preached that LSD was sacred And should free your mind Yet during group sessions He would physically assault Anyone who moved Without his permission When followers noticed These contradictions Manson had a masterful response

[00:16:47] If you saw flaws in his logic The problem wasn't with him It was with you You simply weren't Enlightened enough to understand And his followers Accepted this Even when he beat them They saw it as a gift His attempt to make them smarter Despite his desire To keep the family isolated Manson did allow Some visitors Dennis Wilson Of the Beach Boys Would stop by occasionally Bringing money And spending time With the women He seemed genuinely

[00:17:17] Concerned about their welfare Wilson had promised To record Manson's song Cease to exist With the Beach Boys A glimmer of the musical stardom Manson desperately craved Charlie knew he was about To make it big And every visit from Terry Melcher Just reinforced that belief Melcher still wasn't Making any promises He hadn't committed To listening to Charlie's tapes Or getting him into a studio But he was sticking around That was enough

[00:17:46] To keep Charlie hopeful And to keep Melcher happy Charlie played the gracious host That meant offering up Ruth Ann His favorite girl For Melcher's pleasure The other family women Were available too But Ruth Ann Was his first choice Greg Jacobson came around too Usually with Melcher Or Dennis Wilson He still believed There was something Marketable about Charlie Maybe not his music But him Maybe a documentary Maybe something for TV

[00:18:16] So Jacobson spent time Studying him Walking the ranch With Charlie Asking about his past And Charlie was more than Happy to tell his story The illegitimate son Of a teenage prostitute Beaten and abused In reformed school And prison Forced to play The insane game To survive Able to change hats At will Adapting to any situation Any crowd And Jacobson Watched him do it Charlie was firm Yet fatherly With the family Obsequious with George Spahn

[00:18:46] A buddy and musical equal With Wilson and Melcher And with the bikers A crude redneck pal Charlie liked having The bikers around Sometimes They were useful Good at fixing motorcycles And the family always had A couple of busted bikes But there was a problem Bikers liked beer And Charlie banned alcohol He said it was Mind numbing Not mind expanding Like LSD But if bikers Were coming over Charlie expected The family to find Some beer

[00:19:16] Somehow They'd panhandle for it They'd steal for it But shoplifting A case of beer Even Charlie knew That was risky So they begged instead And sex Sex was part of the routine Charlie would bring over Whoever he wanted To impress Not just Wilson Melcher And Jacobson Bikers Drug dealers And then he'd line up The family women In front of them Pick one And whichever girl Was chosen

[00:19:45] Charlie ordered her to go To do whatever Was asked of her If she hesitated If she refused That meant she still Had hang ups And Charlie punished Her for that Sometimes by making Her strip naked In front of everyone Then humiliating her Breaking her down The lesson was simple Don't refuse Don't hesitate And above all Never seem reluctant Charlie loved showing off In front of his VIPs Especially his music

[00:20:15] One day He, Wilson, and Jacobson Were walking the ranch And the place Reeked of horse manure And there was flies Everywhere Charlie just stood there Swarmed by them Guitar in hand And started playing a song About the flies Their buzzing And what it all Really meant Jacobson had seen A lot of musical genius Even Brian Wilson But Charlie Charlie had something Different Something raw Something improvised

[00:20:44] Years later Jacobson would say Charlie could have been A rapper Spitting street gospel Over a beat But in that moment Charlie wasn't Focused on rap He was focused On one thing Fame And right now He was still working Wilson, Melcher, And Jacobson Because Universal Hadn't come through For him And Charlie Charlie wasn't about To let this dream Slip away One day Phil Kaufman Showed up at Spahn Ranch

[00:21:14] But Charlie Wasn't impressed Kaufman had nothing To offer No record deal No connections Just friendship And Charlie Didn't need that So the family Ignored him Cold shoulders All around After an hour Kaufman got the message And left He figured That was the last He'd ever see Of Charlie And his so-called Peace and love Followers He thought At least they Weren't hurting anyone They were selfish Sure

[00:21:44] But harmless Or so it seemed The authorities Knew about the hippies At Spahn Ranch They were just Another commune One of hundreds Around Los Angeles Long-haired Preaching peace Dropping acid Law enforcement Didn't love them But they had Bigger problems To worry about And who was Supposed to keep An eye on Spahn Ranch Anyway The place Sat right On the L.A. Ventura County line Neither department

[00:22:13] Wanted to claim it So nobody did And that meant Charlie and the family Were left alone Free to do Whatever they wanted I'll be back After this quick break Charlie controlled What the family Knew about The outside world He fed them Select bits of news But only what he Thought they should Hear And 1968 Gave him Plenty of fuel August 26th The Democratic National Convention In Chicago Protests Tear gas Batons swinging Network cameras

[00:22:42] Capturing the chaos And protesters Choking and bleeding Chanting The whole world Is watching And after that America seemed To fracture Some radicals Still pushed For peaceful change But others They wanted war Meanwhile Nixon was preaching Law and order And voters Frightened and exhausted Turned to him On November 5th He won And the country Braced for what Was coming next Across the Atlantic The Beatles

[00:23:12] Were in the studio They were fighting McCartney wanted ballads But Lennon wanted edge But this time Paul brought the grit A loud wild song About a British carnival ride Helter Skelter Little did he know The impact that song Would have More than 5,000 miles away In Los Angeles Two days later In LA The Beach Boys Were recording too Dennis Wilson Had taken Charlie's song Cease to exist

[00:23:41] He changed the words And changed the meaning And rebranded it As never learned Not to love And credited himself As the sole songwriter Charlie would be furious When he found out But Dennis He figured Charlie owed him A summer of freeloading A totaled Ferrari And besides Dennis was a beach boy Charlie was a nobody That's how LA worked And if Charlie wanted To make it in the industry He'd have to learn Who was boss

[00:24:11] But Charlie had Bigger concerns Spawn Ranch Wasn't isolated enough Too many distractions And too many ways For people to leave Bikers gave rides Into town Guests were invited To stay the night Without permission And one morning Charlie had to Chase off a guy Who'd spent the night With Leslie Van Houten The next day The guy came back This time With friends And right in front Of Charlie He told Leslie You should leave With us

[00:24:41] She stayed But what if she hadn't What if others followed Charlie's power Depended on control He had three dozen Followers now And he was done Recruiting He told little Paul Watkins and Gypsy No more new members Unless they had Money or resources What he wanted Was a new home Somewhere farther From civilization Where he could be The only influence Somewhere like Grandma's place That's what family member Kathy Gillies called it

[00:25:11] A ranch deep In Death Valley Hard to reach Even by car Charlie took a trip To check it out And what he saw Was exactly What he'd been Looking for No distractions No escape Just Charlie And his family The desert loomed Like serrated teeth A wild harsh land Scattered settlements In Inyo County Trona Shoshone Were barely outposts Independence The county seat Wasn't much better The closest town Ballarat

[00:25:40] Was a ghost town Except for a Bare bones general store The only place To buy necessities Wildlife thrived But humans did not Fewer than two people Per square mile Most were drifters Prospectors hoping For gold The ones who stayed Iconoclasts People who wanted Nothing to do With the outside world Law enforcement Was scarce Just a handful Of county officers And Death Valley Rangers Mostly desert dwellers Were left alone Just the way

[00:26:10] Charlie wanted it Some places In the desert Were livable If not luxurious Underground streams Meant wells And irrigation Were possible Kathy Gillies His relatives Had made their ranch Almost attractive With vegetable gardens And well kept buildings But Charlie had his eye On the land next door Barker Ranch Two stone houses A shed A small pool For water A generator For limited electricity 50 miles From the nearest power lines

[00:26:39] A wood stove A bathroom 50 miles From civilization Might as well Have been The far end Of the world Charlie tracked down Arlene Barker The owner He told her He was a musician Looking for solitude To prove it He handed her A Beach Boys gold record Stolen from Dennis Wilson's lodge That was enough She let him stay Most of the family Moved in Charlie left a few At Spahn Ranch Almost immediately The family hated it

[00:27:10] Blistering heat Worse than Spahn No phones No radio Snakes and scorpions Under every rock Cooking meant chopping wood Awful work in the sun Charlie shut them down Soon things in the outside world Will turn to chaos Full out war And young loves like you Will be targets But out here We're safe The family didn't buy it So Charlie gave them Something else To believe in A hidden hole A magical entrance To underground tunnels

[00:27:39] Away to anywhere on earth We'll find it He told them Tripping on acid And they wanted to believe Reality was harsher No grocery stores No easy food runs Charlie sent the women To forage in the desert They didn't know how You're women This is what you're Supposed to know But they came back Empty handed Food had to be bought Either at Ballarat's Tiny General Store Or hauled in From LA or Vegas Travel was brutal

[00:28:09] Money was scarce Charlie tried sending The girls to Vegas To panhandle For an Indian tribe They told tourists It worked But barely And Vegas was a risk Too many outside influences Too much temptation Charlie had dragged them To the desert To escape all that Now he had another problem In LA Acid and weed Were easy to find Bikers Dealers Charlie had things to trade Motorcycles Beadwork Sex In Death Valley Nothing

[00:28:38] And Charlie needed LSD To keep the family Under control Weed to smooth Over the frustration Barker Ranch Had its advantages But food and drug Shortages Tipped the scales Spawn was easier Charlie had convinced His followers That Barker Ranch Was their new Promised land If he suddenly Changed course They might doubt him He needed a reason To leave And just before Thanksgiving Dennis Wilson Gave him one Dennis Wilson

[00:29:08] Didn't hold grudges Charlie's song Ceased to exist Had been reworked It was now titled Never Learned Not to Love And Dennis Took full credit But the song Turned out well Maybe Charlie Would be happy Just to hear his music Recorded Maybe this could be The start of something More collaboration More money Dennis still Liked the girls He knew Charlie Had moved to Barker Ranch So toward the end Of November He and Greg Jacobson Decided to visit

[00:29:38] They arrived To an enthusiastic Welcome Wilson Carefully editing The details Told Charlie That his song Had made it onto The new Beach Boys album They should head Back to LA To celebrate Charlie was elated He couldn't afford To be away from LA At such a critical moment Surely once The industry elite Heard Cease to exist On the album Titled 2020 They would Recognize its brilliance And rush to sign Its creator The family had to Return to Spahn

[00:30:08] Immediately Of course He didn't frame it That way to his followers Instead He warned them Of Death Valley's Brutal winters Just as harsh As its summers The buildings Weren't heated And out of concern For their well-being He was leading them Back to LA They could return To Barker Ranch After winter Everyone was relieved No one more than Charlie Wilson and Jacobson Spent the night At Barker Wilson had free reign With any of the girls Jacobson however

[00:30:38] Wanted his jeep back Which irritated Charlie To make a point Charlie denied him Ruthann And instead offered Leslie Jacobson was briefly Indignant But gave in Leslie was beautiful And sweet The next morning Wilson Jacobson And Charlie Headed back to LA With most of the family Following shortly after Charlie left a few Members behind To stake the family's Claim on the property A problem arose Immediately Squeaky asked George Spahn If the family Could return to

[00:31:07] Spahn Ranch Assuming his answer Would be yes Instead Spahn refused He had decided That the long hairs Made the place Look bad Charlie Consumed by dreams Of imminent stardom Had no patience To argue The old man Allowed a few Members to stay He wasn't ready To give up Squeaky's attentions But the rest Had to find Another place Charlie secured A two-story house On Gresham Street In Canoga Park Above Topanga They had enough money To rent it For a couple of months

[00:31:37] The family moved in Waiting for 2020 To drop in January Big things were coming Meanwhile The women kept up With garbage runs And the men Worked on cars If they returned To Death Valley Charlie reasoned They'd need vehicles Suited to the terrain Tex and the others Began converting Cars into dune buggies Charlie preached Oversaw acid trips And spent nights Soaking in the hot tub While Leslie Read to him From Revelation He was obsessed

[00:32:07] With its imagery Weaving it Into his sermons Increasingly He referred to himself As the second coming Of J.C. Jesus Christ He had the family Bleat like sheep The good shepherd Leading his flock And they did Charlie didn't just Interpret the Bible For his followers He wielded it As a weapon Though they revered And feared him Some of his decrees Stirred quiet dissent Especially among the women When he reinforced Their subservience He shut them down With scripture

[00:32:36] Like a fundamentalist preacher He declared that If it was in the Bible It was truth Beyond debate To question him Was to question The word of God He was J.C. Reborn Later Former family members Would scoff At claims That they had Practiced Satanism Charlie saw himself As Jesus returned To earth Satan was not An ally He was the enemy Keeping the family Occupied in the city Was harder Than at Spahn Or Barker Ranch But just as they Returned to L.A.

[00:33:06] The Beatles Released their new album A sprawling Double disc set Twice as many songs To obsess over Twice as much meaning To unravel Officially titled The Beatles Its stark Featureless cover Was a jarring Contrast to the Swirling psychedelia Of magical mystery tour Almost immediately The world gave it Another name The White Album More about The Beatles After this quick break

[00:34:00] Audible Original In the late 1960s Charlie Manson Was obsessed With the Beatles White Album To him It was more Than just music It was a prophetic Roadmap to the future The White Album With its 30 Exceptionally eclectic songs Was a product Of internal Squabbles Within the band Despite these tensions The album received Critical acclaim But many listeners Found it lacking

[00:34:30] In consistency And theme Manson however Saw something That others Did not He gathered The family around At the Gresham Street Rental House And had them listen To the White Album Over and over He demanded That they pay Special attention To the songs Piggies Blackbird Revolution 1 Revolution 9 And Helter Skelter Each of these songs Had a specific meaning In Manson's Twisted vision Piggies Described the Disgusting sense Of entitlement

[00:34:59] Enjoyed by the Very rich And powerful Concluding that They needed A damn good whacking Blackbird Predicted an uprising Of the downtrodden Blacks This was the moment For them to arise Revolution 1 Was a call to arms Revolution 9 With its electronic Effects and soundbites Including the clatter Of machine guns And human screams Was the soundtrack Of the coming fury And Helter Skelter Provided a formal name For the chaos Soon to come

[00:35:29] Manson made certain That his followers Felt these interpretations Were theirs As well as his He asked for their Comments about the songs Then wove Whatever they said Into a larger Context Everyone should feel Incredibly proud Manson declared Not only was the White Album The Beatles Collective call to arms To the entire world But it was specifically Directed toward Charlie and the family Sometime in 1969 The family would return To Barker Ranch

[00:35:58] In Death Valley And the Beatles Would join them there Manson determined this Based on a line In the song Honey Pie That referred to Crossing the Atlantic With his usual Assumption of superiority And entitlement Manson felt certain That the Beatles Would come to him And his followers To get the process Under way He sent letters And telegrams Of invitation To the Beatles Office in England There was no response But Manson Wasn't deterred The Beatles

[00:36:28] Were only part Of the truth He now revealed He preached To the family That a black uprising Was imminent Not just because The Beatles said so But also because The Bible prophesied it In fact The Bible predicted Not only the uprising But also The Beatles themselves And Charlie Manson The Revelation to John The final book Of the New Testament Concludes the Christian Bible On an unsettling Apocalyptic note John writes about What he has learned To a series

[00:36:57] Of Christian communities So they will have Some warning Of what is about To happen For some Christians Revelation is entirely symbolic To others It's a literal account Of what is going to occur Manson explained That Revelation Predicted that Locusts would come And locusts were Of course Beatles The Beatles John said that The locusts would have Scales like iron breastplates According to Manson These were the Beatles Guitars And there was more

[00:37:26] Revelation also told Of angels coming to earth With the first four Given the key to the shaft Of the bottomless pit Was Charlie The bottomless pit Was the hole In the Death Valley desert The one Charlie Had already told The family about Revelation and The White Album With assistance from Charlie Made it clear There was about to be An uprising Of the oppressed In the world Mostly the blacks Who had been held down For too long

[00:37:55] Everybody had a turn In power And now it was going To be black people's turn Something called Helter Skelter An event Or events Still to be determined Would set off the battle The blacks Were going to kill Most of the whites And enslave Their surviving oppressors Which was only fair Whites had made blacks Their slaves And now roles Would reverse But here was the kicker Just as the Bible foretold And the Bible was always right Charlie would lead the family

[00:38:25] To the bottomless pit Where they would remain In hiding As the world above Descended into chaos After a while It didn't matter how long Because time didn't matter Hundreds of years perhaps The family would expand To 144,000 The equivalent of The twelve tribes of Israel And the number specified In Revelation 14.3 Meanwhile Blacks would discover That they lacked The intelligence And organizational skills To run the world

[00:38:55] So Charlie and the family Would emerge From the bottomless pit And become acknowledged rulers Charlie of course The first among them He'd already convinced Many of his followers That he was Jesus reincarnated It didn't take A much greater leap of faith To buy into This new vision Charlie stressed That everyone Had all the proof That they needed Revelation and the White Album The family was overwhelmed By this news Charlie maintained Rigid control With his usual methods

[00:39:25] Of carrot and stick The women in particular Were reminded that If they remained loyal While they were down In the pit Living in a wonderful Underground city They could change Into any creature They wished Several wanted to Become winged elves And Charlie promised That when the moment Was especially near They'd begin to feel Budding wings Growing on their backs But a terrible fate Awaited anyone Trying to leave the family Now he cautioned

[00:39:53] All of them were white And any deserters Who weren't killed In the coming racial cataclysm Would undoubtedly Be made into slaves Serving black masters Their choice Was slave Or ruler There was an Unexpected defector Tex Watson Previously one of Charlie's most Compliant followers Suddenly found family Membership claustrophobic And sneaked away He stayed in the L.A. area though Supporting himself By dealing drugs In tandem With a new girlfriend Through the bikers

[00:40:23] Charlie had an excellent Network of informers And probably soon Knew exactly where Tex was Charlie wasn't In a hurry To reclaim him While most of the Family was preoccupied With the new prospect Of helter skelter Charlie also had To concern himself With his long Anticipated breakthrough As a musician The Beatles Double disc set Was fine But Charlie's album The one that Producers would Beg him to record After the Beach Boys Version of Cease to Exist

[00:40:53] Was released Would surpass The White Album Both commercially And as a harbinger Of the future Charlie expected Cease to Exist To appear on The Beach Boys Album 20 Which reached stores On January 27th 1969 But the band Chose to proceed 2020 With several singles From the album The second single Released in December 1968 Had Bluebirds Over the Mountain As its A-side And ceased to exist

[00:41:22] On the B-side Completely reworked As Never Learned Not to Love With Dennis Wilson Credited as sole composer Charlie had no inkling Of this until he heard The record And when he did He exploded To him It was betrayal Of the rankest sort He'd told Wilson That it was alright To make changes To the music But the lyrics Must not be changed In any way Wilson knew He wasn't supposed To do it He did it anyway And he didn't tell Charlie that he had

[00:41:52] The insult Was compounded By the fact That Bluebirds Over the Mountain Never Learned Not to Love Tanked on the singles charts Stalling out At number 61 If the record Had been a smash Charlie still might Have gained some Recognition from producers For the genesis of a hit If not the final version Of it As it turned out Charlie was the Uncredited composer Of a failed song And in the bottom line World of the recording Industry That was more damning

[00:42:21] Than not having a song Recorded at all In his rage It would have been Natural for Charlie To seek revenge On Wilson But he somehow Managed to keep himself Under control Dennis Wilson Was a traitor And clearly He could not be trusted As a songwriting collaborator Let alone as a Dedicated promoter Of Charlie's music career That Wilson Had honestly tried For months To get Charlie A record deal Or that he'd opened His home to Charlie And the family Meant nothing

[00:42:51] At some level Charlie interpreted Such generosity As personal weakness He had the veteran Hustlers scorn For gullible marks But his ambition Dwarfed any other Consideration Though Wilson Had dealt a blow To Charlie's plans To the fame And glory That Charlie Not only craved But was certain He deserved He still needed him In one critical way That precluded Charlie From immediately Getting even By December 1968 Charlie had been Working connections

[00:43:21] In the L.A. Music scene For almost a year During that time He had auditioned His music For Gary Stromberg At Universal Who turned him down Brother Records Wanted no part of him Greg Jacobson Was still trying to help But he was more Interested in making A movie about the family Than in getting Charlie a record deal Now Dennis Wilson Was a dead end Too Making even One of these contacts Would have been Beyond the grasp Of almost all Of the other

[00:43:50] Would-be rock stars Who flocked To L.A. Daily Charlie had enjoyed Far more than His share of access And it still came To nothing With one remaining Exception Though Terry Melcher Still hadn't Listened to Charlie's Tapes Let alone audition Charlie in person He hadn't refused To either He'd made a few Social visits To the family At Spahn Though these were Mostly to enjoy The girls Ruth Ann especially Rather than hang Out with Charlie It had taken

[00:44:20] Charlie a while But he finally Understood the Recording industry Food chain Initially he'd Believe that all It took to get Signed was the Support of rock Stars like Dennis Wilson Or Neil Young But the endorsement Of celebrities Meant little Compared to the Clout enjoyed By the most Successful producers And no producer In town was more Successful than Melcher If Melcher said So Charlie had A record deal At Columbia One of the most Prestigious labels

[00:44:49] Along with Greg Jacobson Dennis Wilson Was Melcher's Best friend If Charlie went Off on Wilson Physically attacking Or even just Verbally tearing Into him That would surely Result in Melcher Terminating any Potential interest In Charlie As hard as it Might be Charlie had to Keep getting Along with Wilson Had to let his Betrayer think That everything Was still okay Between them Until Melcher Finally gave Charlie a chance And if he Got that chance

[00:45:18] Charlie was Certain this time Everything would Go the way That he wanted In the next Episode we find Out that Charlie Is starting to Lose control And the violence That the Manson Family became Famous for Begins But in the Meantime Here is Simon And Tom To give us Their thoughts On this episode Tom and I Speak about you Every week Because of the Work that you're Doing here It really is Astonishing It's the amount That you've had To sift through To get to That detail

[00:45:47] Firstly are you Enjoying it And secondly How do you Go about that It must be An onerous task Thank you Simon For sure it's a lot Of work but I'm Still enjoying it There are Thousands of Books Websites YouTube videos And newspaper Articles about This case And I have Spent many Hours listening Watching and Reading about It A few years Ago like most People including Yourselves I Thought I knew About the so Called Manson Murders but it Turned out I Knew very little

[00:46:16] I think my Interest was Piqued when A few years Ago I was Watching a Documentary about Laurel Canyon And the incredible Music scene there In the late 60s And the name Bobby Beausoleil Was mentioned And that he was Connected to Manson and his Followers and Of course Manson Played a part in The story too So I started to Do a bit of Research on the Subject and The more I Learned the more Fascinated I Became The whole story Is just Incredible

[00:46:45] We have just Finished episode Seven and None of the Crimes that they Became infamous for Have even happened Yet but that's Coming soon What about you Tom? Are you enjoying It? I'm really Enjoying now as You're building The picture and The psychological Profiles coming Together it's a Fantastic piece of Work well done Very well done And keep it Going I'm looking Forward to the Next few episodes When things come To a head for The family here Episode seven Was wonderful Because we're Starting to see The breakdown In the plan

[00:47:15] And the drift Towards Violence And we're Starting to see What was Perfectly rational Actions on Behalf of Charlie Turned to Being irrational I wonder Whether that's To do with A specific Drug Now Let me Explain Just for a Second Up to now His plan Has made Sense He's gathering His gang Together He's selecting The people In his gang He's weeding Out the people Who would be A threat to Him He's weeding

[00:47:45] Out the people Who are no Use to him He's moving Them around Purposefully To keep Control He's stripping Them of their Identity and Giving them Pet names So that they Don't identify With their old Thing He's preaching To them And so he's Controlling them Absolutely And all of a Sudden he Starts to be Irrational He starts to Have a paranoia About the Black Panthers He starts to Talk about Helter Skelter Which is Utter nonsense When you think About it

[00:48:14] I wonder Alex Referred to The use of The drug Mescaline Now I don't Know did you Ever come Across Mescaline In your time Yes I did We came across Little bits and Pieces of it But when I was Out in America Working I Worked with a Guy from the DEA who Was one of The authorities On mescaline And what he Told me was Often mescaline Looks like LSD The symptoms Are like LSD But he said That mescaline Is very much More dangerous

[00:48:43] Because it's A natural Substance And therefore People take In huge dosages Very popular Amongst the Biker community That's where We find it Among our Biker community Yep But one of The side effects Of mescaline Use is Paranoia And schizophrenic Behaviour Alex I'd Really like to Know about Charlie's use Of mescaline You've made it Very clear that Sometimes he'd Stayed sober In your words Not taking LSD To keep

[00:49:13] Control But mescaline Has completely Different properties That was an Interesting point I wonder Because right Now Charlie's Behaviour Is going off The scale From being Rational From being Controlling Albeit in An evil way He was logical And now He's starting To behave In an entirely Illogical way Tom I have Never heard About mescaline Being used by Charlie but as You say it Looks like LSD So he could Have been Taking it In front of

[00:49:43] Others who Thought it Was LSD Or he could Have been Taking it Privately in The absence Of others I'll watch Out for any Evidence as I continue My research Simon what Are your Thoughts on Manson And the Drugs It's the Underlying Factor here That's keeping The group Together really Because he's Making sure There's Hallucogens Available all The time It becomes Part of the Daily ritual That they're All taking Drugs The fact that He's Opting out Now and Again Tells you The quantity That they Must be

[00:50:13] Using as Well His music All the Preaching Everything that He's done Is underpinned With this Use of LSD He doesn't Like alcohol He says That's mind Numbing Whereas LSD Is freeing Of the Mind So I Think there's That whole Underpin And I Know that I talk About it Quite often But I Can see The war On drugs Now from A different Perspective Because of What Alex Is doing With the Charles Manson Era In the late 60s America And the World And the Overriding

[00:50:42] Thing that Brought about The war On drugs Was fear When Nixon Was elected At the end Of the 60s He was Elected On a Law And Order Ticket Because people Were scared They were Scared of The hippie Movement They were Scared of The communes That were Springing up They were Scared of Drug use They were Scared of The racial Undertones That they Were being Fed And that Black People Were now Mixing With white People Freely All of These Things Including On a World Scale The wars That were

[00:51:12] Going on Primarily In Vietnam That's why The answer Was to Try and Calm down On these Things Because they Were undermining Society Yeah They were Frightened Of the Counterculture Weren't They I think You're Right There Tom And you Can see Why When you See the Violence There was In some Of these Demonstrations Anti-war Demonstrations And the Fury Unleashed It was Almost As if The youth Of America Was turning Against The middle Aged The ruling Generation

[00:51:42] And the Catalyst For that Was drugs Or were Seemed to Be drugs Tom The other Thing in This episode That I Wanted to Speak to You Specifically About Because this Has changed In the Police so Much over The last 50 years Was Jurisdiction There were Hundreds of These Communes Like Charlie's Family Springing Up all Over California From what The picture That's been Painted For us Law Enforcement Would be Struggling To deal With that When you Bring In the Different Jurisdictions That Exist I'm Thinking Back To My

[00:52:12] Days With Strathclyde When We Had Eight Forces In Scotland And Jurisdiction Posed The Problem Because Of Your Historical Knowledge You'll Be Able To A Time When There Were Hundreds Of Forces In Scotland Because They were All Tiny Forces In Their Own Right The Jurisdiction Problems Helped Manson Stay Under The Radar Here Didn't They They Did But We Never Had Jurisdiction Problems Like The United States Did The United States Was Riven By Jurisdiction Problems And I Saw That When I

[00:52:42] Worked Out There Because You Had Several Layers Of Law Enforcement Wow Hold On A Minute Tom Did You Work For The FBI Out Here I Did I Haven't Spoken About It Much But Yes I Did That Was One Of The Problems They Had Actually Was Because Of The Jurisdictional Issues The Tough Wars They Were Often Not Called In And Not Not Not Not Not Not Until It Was Too Late It Was To Try And Build Relationships With Local Law Enforcement That Was The Reason I Was At The FBI

[00:53:11] Academy They Got Local Police Chiefs And Brought Them To Quantico And Then They Brought Some Exotic Foreign Detectives In Me I Was An Exotic Foreign Detective I Have Heard You Called A Few Things Because You Did Command A Force Of Three And Half Thousand So I Heard You Called A Few Names And I Thought Of A Few Myself Over The Last Year Or So But Exotic Has Never Been One That's Actually Come To Mind That's Exotic Not Erotic Let's Get

[00:53:41] That Right If Only If Only No Seriously Tough Wars And Jurisdictions The Problems Were Always You Have Your Town Police Sheriff State Police Then You Had The DEA And The FBI Alcohol Tobacco And Firearms ATF It Was The ATF Who Was Responsible For Some Of These Huge Shootouts Against These Communes Of People All Of These People All Protecting Their Turf We Had Some

[00:54:11] Jurisdictional Issues In Scotland But They Were At

[00:55:13] Back

[00:55:45] see this coming forward in the Manson case, where you had a group of people who were highly suspicious, operating on the margins, living on petty crime, with all sorts of odd people involved. And no doubt some of Charlie Manson's acolytes, some of his family, were probably wanted and warrants by different places. No doubt they were all people who should have been on the radar and that were not on the radar because of jurisdiction. And as you've

[00:56:14] said, and you're right about this Simon, back then in the LA area, because of the tremendous draw of show business and wealth and glamour, you must have had thousands of kids making their way from all over the United States and other parts of the world to get to LA where the streets were paved with gold. And as we now know, as we go forward, it's far from that. Went for Sword 7. Of course it starts with the Spawn Ranch, George Spawn's ranch.

[00:56:44] And a lot of it is about Charlie trying to find the right place, because it's all about the environment. It's about isolation. It's about cutting the family off from outside influences. It's about keeping them cocooned. They're not allowed phones or newspaper or television, anything like that. As you say, their identities are moulded to suit him. That's all going on and he's moving back and forward, looking for places to stay. And then towards the end of the episode,

[00:57:12] we start to hear, and this is his slide into the helter skelter that you alluded to there. And it was really the Beatles. After the Magical Mystery Tour, which he was obsessed by, then it comes into the White Album, or just the Beatles album as it was called, that became the White Album, with the tracks on that, Revolution, etc. That we'll talk about next time. We'll talk about more now that we're coming to this stage of the story. And I suppose the final part of that is

[00:57:39] this underlying, Charlie wants to be famous. He thinks he should be famous. The LSD's done one thing to him, and it's made him think that he's good, hasn't it? It has. It's funny, because I've listened to his singing and his playing, and back then it was all about appearance. And there was such an appetite for recorded music that these record producers were putting people on the stage and pushing them forward to fame when their talent, as we know,

[00:58:05] some of the early boy bands and pop groups couldn't play their instruments at all. They were all presentable, all good-looking guys. I'm thinking of the Monkees, particularly that band that came up, a very famous band. That was a completely artificial construct, just on the fact that they looked the part. I think I said the last time, Charlie Manson perhaps could have broken through, and the whole history would have been different. These are things that intrigue me.

[00:58:34] It's points of departure. It's where things could have been different, and what was the catalyst? Brilliant, Tom. The detail is incredible, and putting it in context is a fantastic job, Alec. Thank you. It's been a pleasure, Simon, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to tell this story on your fabulous podcast. In the next episode, Charlie makes a crucial mistake, which starts a chain of events that eventually leads to his downfall.

[00:59:01] You've been listening to Crime Time Inc., where the investigation never truly ends. If you liked this episode, please listen to some more, and it would really help us if you left a comment on whatever platform you're listening to this on. Thank you. Our team respects the victims of these crimes and their families. This podcast is produced with the intention to educate and bring clarity to complex cases that have shaped our criminal justice system.

[00:59:31] Crime Time Inc. is hosted by former detectives Simon McClain and Tom Wood. And our research team verifies all case information presented in this series. Visit CrimeTimeInc.com for more information about us. Join us next time for another great true crime episode.