Charles Manson Arrives in Los Angeles

[00:00:13] Welcome to Crime Time Inc, where we, two former murder squad detectives, take you beyond the headlines and into these investigations Every crime scene tells a story, every piece of evidence reveals a truth Sometimes the most revealing cases are the ones we thought we knew all about Some episodes contain discussions of real crimes that may include graphic descriptions of violence, criminal behaviour

[00:00:41] and references of a sexual nature that some listeners may find disturbing The details presented are included for factual accuracy and to provide a complete understanding of the investigation as experienced by law enforcement Listener discretion is strongly advised Welcome back to Crime Time Inc. My name is Alex and this is Episode 5 of our Charles Manson series

[00:01:19] Let me take you inside a pivotal moment in the Manson story Picture this, a broken down school bus crawling its way from San Francisco to L.A. with Charlie under the hood playing mechanic A skill he'd picked up during his reform school days He was practically buzzing with excitement about meeting Gary Stromberg at Universal Convinced this was his big break into the music business Thanks to a connection through Phil Kaufman, Charlie got his foot in the door at Universal

[00:01:49] When he eventually showed up, barefoot mind you He proudly gave Stromberg a tour of their white painted bus Complete with its hanging coffee table and battery powered turntable His four female followers watched his every move hanging on each gesture But here's where it all went sideways That studio session? Complete disaster Charlie couldn't handle the professional setup Bristling at the engineers and their instructions

[00:02:17] I ain't used to a lot of people, he complained to Stromberg No record deal materialized Though Stromberg softened the blow by suggesting they might try again someday Interestingly, Stromberg saw another potential use for Charlie As a consultant on a controversial film project about a modern day Jesus During their beach conversations, Charlie put on quite a show He had one of his girls, Lynn, kiss his feet to demonstrate his ideas about biblical submission

[00:02:46] Then there was this wild moment when someone challenged Charlie about owning a bus Despite preaching against possessions Without missing a beat, Charlie handed over the keys The guy actually drove off with it Only to return hours later, impressed by Charlie's apparent detachment from material things Charlie didn't let the universal rejection get him down In his mind, Stromberg just wasn't enlightened enough to understand his genius

[00:03:13] Besides, L.A. was full of music industry players Surely someone would recognize his star potential But he'd learned one thing Nobody was ever going to tell him how to play his music again Charlie Manson was going to do things his way Convinced that he alone knew best After the universal disappointment, they needed a real place to stay Those girls were getting tired of living in a bus without showers

[00:03:39] Lucky for them, 1967 L.A. was full of folks happy to take in wandering souls They landed in Topanga Canyon at this eccentric crash pad called the Spiral Staircase It was perfect A constant flow of musicians and interesting characters passing through That's where Charlie met Bobby Beausoleil And boy, was that an interesting connection See, Beausoleil was everything Charlie wasn't

[00:04:06] Naturally magnetic, good-looking, with girls following him everywhere Charlie saw potential there Imagine combining Bobby's natural appeal with his own Special way of influencing people But here's the thing Beausoleil wasn't buying what Charlie was selling Sure, he thought Charlie was interesting enough to form a band with They called themselves the Milky Way But he wasn't about to become one of Charlie's followers As Beausoleil put it, he didn't travel with anybody

[00:04:35] The band didn't last long But something more important came out of that friendship Beausoleil introduced Charlie to Gary Hinman And Charlie's eyes lit up at the possibilities Hinman was perfect A music teacher with industry contacts A drug dealer with connections And best of all, he had a nice house where Charlie's people could crash Mary and Susan helped charm their way into Hinman's good graces The only frustration for Charlie?

[00:05:05] Hinman's Buddhist leanings made him immune to Charlie's spiritual pitch Still, Charlie figured Hinman could be useful Even if he never fully joined the family Charlie couldn't stay put at the spiral staircase See, he had this problem Too many competing gurus under one roof You had your Satanists, vegans, anarchists, born-again Christians All of them preaching their own path to enlightenment Charlie knew from his hate Ashbery days That this kind of spiritual marketplace

[00:05:34] Wasn't good for his control over his followers So in December, he packed up his girls and hit the road Heading deep into the Mojave Desert Now that was more like it Just empty space in his captive audience He'd lecture them about absolute obedience Mixing in tracks from the Beatles' new Magical Mystery Tour album See? He'd tell them We're just like the Beatles on their bus Having adventures The women hated the dust and bugs

[00:06:02] But Charlie loved the isolation So that's where they stayed After a couple weeks wandering through Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas Where Charlie refused some much-needed dental work Worried it might affect his singing They headed back to L.A. By then, Susan was pregnant from a guy in Arizona And Mary was already carrying Charlie's baby Charlie was fine with all this In his mind, the babies would be raised communally Free from individual hang-ups

[00:06:32] Charlie was studying other communes at this point But not to join them He was looking to steal their best ideas But he did snag something interesting from the Hog Farm Commune A 14-year-old girl named Diane Lake Her parents actually gave permission for her to join them And Charlie immediately made her his favorite Holding her up as an example of someone uncorrupted by society For the next year, she'd be his most frequent sexual partner

[00:07:01] Let me take you to Topanga at the end of 67 Where Charlie and his group were living a nomadic life Bouncing between rentals, squats, and crashes At Hinman's Place or the Spiral Staircase But Charlie had his eyes on the prize Landing that record deal And boy, was Topanga the place to be for that We're talking Neil Young, Stephen Stills, Linda Ronstadt All living right there Now these stars were used to wannabe musicians Showing up on their doorsteps

[00:07:30] Frank Zappa would regularly find strangers in his living room Waiting to play him their songs But Charlie? He took it to another level The band Spirit were formed around this time And they went on to achieve commercial success In 1968, they played in the Denver Auditorium With their support band An unknown group of four young Englishmen Called Led Zeppelin Spirit perhaps became most famous For taking Jimmy Page to court

[00:07:59] Accusing him of copying their song Taurus And using it in one of the most famous songs of all time Stairway to Heaven So one day Charlie burst into Spirit's rehearsal Only to get kicked out with shouts about his bad karma Things got even uglier with producer David Briggs Charlie not only demanded a record deal But also tried to get Briggs' truck Briggs ended up threatening to shoot him If he ever showed his face again

[00:08:27] But here's where things get dark While Charlie was preaching love and selflessness to his followers There was trouble behind the scenes Mary Brunner kept showing up with black eyes And the group's veterans, Lynn and Pat Knew the brutal truth Charlie was beating Mary Sometimes knocking her down and kicking her While she was on the ground He tried to keep this violence hidden from most followers But Lynn and Pat got the message loud and clear Disobey

[00:08:56] And they'd get the same treatment Despite all this Charlie's belief in his destiny as a superstar Never wavered He was still that same guy Who'd first heard the Beatles on a prison radio At McNeil Island Convinced his time would come Even if reality was telling a very different story The year is 1968 The Summer of Love has faded But its remnants still scatter across Los Angeles Like flower petals after a parade

[00:09:26] The Beach Boys were struggling Despite their earlier success rivaling the Beatles They were in trouble Brian Wilson's mental health and drug issues Had derailed their hit-making machine And after missing the Monterey Pop Festival They were seen as yesterday's news Meanwhile, Dennis Wilson got interested in the Maharishi Through the Beatles' connection And the band was desperately seeking both spiritual guidance And fresh hits

[00:09:52] This was happening against a backdrop of national chaos The Tet Offensive in Vietnam Walter Cronkite questioning the war Race riots erupting across America And there was Charlie In Topanga Seeing opportunity in all this upheaval Charlie had perfected his recruitment pitch He'd zero in on confused young people Agreeing with everything they said Making them feel understood His existing followers would help Spreading word about this amazing guy

[00:10:22] Who had all the answers But Charlie had different standards For men and women joining his family For men, it was pretty straightforward Mechanical skills were valued And Charlie could be himself around them Showing his racial prejudices And fascination with weapons Paul Watkins became his star recruiter While Bruce Davis ran reconnaissance missions Charlie cleverly kept them both thinking They were his right-hand man But with women?

[00:10:51] That was different Charlie would break them down mentally and sexually Probing their life stories for vulnerabilities He'd convince them their families had wronged them And only he could truly love them The sexual initiation was brutal And non-negotiable Though some women Like Ruth Ann Morehouse Who'd fled her marriage to join them Fitted right in Others Like Dee Dee Lansbury Actress Angela Lansbury's daughter Were kept around just long enough To drain their parents' credit cards

[00:11:22] Angela Lansbury was an icon Of Hollywood's golden age Many years later In a candid interview About her extreme efforts as a mother To protect her children from Manson The murder-she-wrote actress Said that her daughter Deirdre And son Anthony Had gotten involved with the wrong crowd As teenagers And started doing drugs It started with cannabis But moved on to heroin Lansbury revealed There were factions up in the hills Above Malibu

[00:11:51] That were dedicated to deadly pursuits It pains me to say it But at one stage Deirdre was in with a crowd Led by Charles Manson Lansbury added She was one of many youngsters Who knew him And they were fascinated He was an extraordinary character Charismatic in many ways No question about it After Lansbury learned Of her kids' drug use And daughter's involvement In Manson's cult She told her husband Peter Shaw We have to leave Together

[00:12:21] They moved the family From their home in Los Angeles To Ireland So we upped sticks And moved the family To a house I found In County Cork I was drawn to Ireland Because it was the birthplace Of my mother And it was also somewhere My children wouldn't be exposed To any more bad influences Lansbury said It fills me with dread When reflecting back On what could have happened To her children Had she not initiated The move to Ireland

[00:12:50] Peter and I had no idea What had been going on But then we had no experience Of drugs We didn't know the significance Of finding a pipe in a drawer Why would we? And when we did We didn't know how to help them Lansbury said Nor were there any experts Back then Who could offer advice To the parents of kids From good families Who were using And sometimes overdosing On drugs It was like An epidemic I'll be back After this quick break

[00:13:20] Audible Original True Crime Thriller Diese eine Nacht Im Winter 2008 Ein ungelöster Mord Es war alles genau wie damals Exakt genauso Eine Spur Die Jahrzehnte überdauert Der Anruf Ein Auto Es brennt Auf einem verlassenen Parkplatz Und ein Täter Der niemals aufhört Der Unterschied war aber Diesmal war ich Die leitende Beamtin Jasmin Tabatabai Diesmal werden wir Keine Fehler machen Die Toten von Norden Jetzt nur bei Audible

[00:13:50] By early 68 The group had swelled To 20 or more Charlie had them Abandoned their given names Pat became Katie Susan became Sadie Mae Glutz Diane Lake was Snake They scraped by Through panhandling Odd jobs And Charlie's gift For convincing wealthy people To donate cars And valuables Real family Or elaborate con For Charlie's Growing band of followers The line was already Starting to blur

[00:14:19] Food was never a problem Charlie taught them To raid supermarket dumpsters Though he'd never admit He learned this From the diggers in the hate The girls would flirt With stock boys For fresh food Or dress up as Girl Scout leaders Begging for donations They got pretty creative About it And ate well Meanwhile The Beatles were off In India With the Maharishi Along with Mike Love From the Beach Boys And actress Mia Farrow Who had just completed

[00:14:48] Director Roman Polanski's film Rosemary's Baby That didn't end well Rumors about the guru Eating meat And hitting on women Sent most of them Packing early Though Mike Love Stayed devoted Back in Topanga Phil Kaufman Got out of Terminal Island And reunited With his old prison buddy Charlie What he found Amazed him Charlie had built himself A harem Of willing women Behind closed doors Charlie shared His racist views With Kaufman Pushing the idea

[00:15:18] That white men Needed to get White women pregnant To counter what he saw As a threatening Black birth rate A typical day In the family Started late After a casual breakfast The men would work On vehicles Cars and motorcycles That people just gave To Charlie But here's the thing That shocked Kaufman Charlie would fix These sweet rides up Only to give them away Claiming it taught Everyone Not to be materialistic The women Spent their days Foraging for food

[00:15:48] And then they'd Handle all the Cooking and cleaning Charlie insisted That serving men Was women's Proper role Often they'd all Drop acid together Though Paul Watkins Later revealed That Charlie Always took less To stay in control Then Charlie Would preach about Giving up Individuality and possessions Always keeping it Peaceful At least on the surface Group sex was a regular Afternoon activity In a designated room With rugs and cushions Sometimes it was

[00:16:18] Freestyle or as Kaufman put it Whoever you fell on Other times Charlie played director Though he rarely Ordered lesbian acts His rule was simple Men's pleasure came first And women were there To serve Dinner was a communal affair With platters Passed around Family style After the meal Charlie would lead The music session Him on guitar With the women As his backup singers They'd cycle through His songs and Beatles tunes Especially from Magical Mystery Tour

[00:16:47] Charlie seemed to think Of the Beatles As honorary family members He was looser About car radios though Letting followers Tune in to whatever They wanted Jefferson Airplane The Doors The Stones The Beach Boys Not so much interest there Nights were for special outings With Charlie's favorites They'd drop in On Topanga Friends Or Crash Parties People were pretty relaxed About strangers Showing up back then Phil Kaufman Introduced Charlie To his friend

[00:17:17] Harold True Who lived in a nice house In Los Feliz On Waverly Drive Charlie got to know That upper middle class Neighborhood well Including Harold's neighbors A couple named Leno And Rosemary LaBianca Who moved in After Harold left We'll come across them again Later in the story But Kaufman's time With the family Was limited About five weeks He couldn't help Charlie Make those music industry Connections he craved And worse He actually dared

[00:17:47] To disagree with Charlie Sometimes That was a big no-no Charlie couldn't risk Anyone challenging him In front of the others Before cutting Kaufman loose Charlie made one last attempt To convert him fully During a trip to San Francisco To rescue their broken down bus But trying to recruit the guy Who once knew him As just another prison inmate That wasn't gonna work Let me tell you about How things ended with Kaufman And the larger events

[00:18:15] Unfolding in early 1968 When Charlie tried His recruitment pitch Kaufman just laughed Hey save it for other people Charlie's sharp response You're too smart to be here After that Kaufman found himself Increasingly frozen out By Charlie and the girls Until he got the message And left Though they stayed in touch For a while Those visits eventually stopped The magic was gone Meanwhile America was coming apart At the seams

[00:18:44] In March 68 Lyndon B. Johnson's Commission on Civil Unrest Blamed white racism For the racial riots Warning that America Might split into two Permanently hostile camps Then came the Political earthquakes Eugene McCarthy Nearly beat Johnson In New Hampshire Robert Kennedy Jumped into the race And on March 31st Johnson shocked everyone By announcing he wouldn't Seek re-election Just four days later Martin Luther King Jr. Was assassinated in Memphis

[00:19:13] Triggering devastating riots In New York and Washington The violence spread like wildfire 125 cities erupted In racial violence Requiring 55,000 troops To restore order Things got so tense They even set up A machine gun post At the U.S. Capitol After rumors of potential attacks But Charlie? He used all this chaos To his advantage He never discussed Vietnam or racial issues With his followers Instead He'd remind them

[00:19:43] How lucky they were To be with him Safe from the scary world Outside The worse things got out there The tighter his grip became His followers dove deeper Into sex and drugs Convinced they were The lucky ones Don't go away I'll have much more for you After this quick break

[00:20:30] Audible Original It's nobody audible April brought Charlie A new prize Sandy Good Like many of his followers She came from divorced parents And had a troubled past Including surgeries That left her scarred She was drifting Between colleges When she met Charlie In L.A. Charlie's promise Of real family love Hooked her instantly But Charlie had his own reason To love Sandy Her stockbroker father

[00:20:59] Had set up a $200 Monthly trust fund for her Money that now flowed Straight to Charlie At first Sandy struggled to fit in She wore makeup Jewelry And carried herself With confidence Traits that didn't align With Charlie's vision He singled her out For private talks Reinforcing his doctrine That individuality Was dangerous More importantly He didn't want her to leave And take her $200 Monthly stipend with her To break her down He forced her to strip In front of the group

[00:21:29] Using her scars As proof of parental abuse If they had truly loved her He argued Why had they let doctors Disfigure her? It took time But Sandy eventually conformed Unlike others She wasn't given a nickname For months That April Mary Brunner Gave birth to Charlie's son She wanted a hospital But Charlie insisted On a natural birth Aided only by the other women They were clueless But Charlie dismissed Their concerns You're women You'll figure it out

[00:21:58] The baby was breech And Mary suffered terribly But she and the child survived The boy Later known as Pooh Bear Was raised communally Outsiders saw a loving Attentive group But Charlie kept The children separate Parents needed his permission To visit Which he rarely gave Claiming biological parents Had a harmful influence Shortly after Charlie led the group On a road trip Camping in Ventura County To reinforce self-sufficiency

[00:22:27] And prevent anyone From growing too comfortable They didn't stay long Local deputies Arrested several members Including Charlie And Susan Atkins For using fake IDs While Mary Brunner Was picked up For nursing in public The charges didn't stick Law enforcement Just wanted them gone But Charlie spun it differently A few nights in jail Meant nothing to him He used the arrests To prove the system's Persecution of those Who had seen the truth

[00:22:56] Charlie and his followers Roamed in search Of a place to settle Eventually finding An old movie ranch At the foot of The Santa Susana Mountains It had been used For cowboy films In the 50s and 60s And was owned By George Spahn A nearly blind Elderly man They stayed for a while Before returning To Topanga Where Charlie resumed His pursuit Of a record deal Meanwhile the Beach Boys Embarked on a national tour With an unexpected opening act

[00:23:25] The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Who lectured audiences On transcendental meditation Fans had paid for music Not philosophy And they heckled him Nightly Undeterred The Maharishi Simply giggled And kept talking The tour was a disaster With ticket sales plummeting A New York show Sold only 200 tickets Cancel halfway through Losing $500,000 Mike Love blamed the failure On the world's ignorance And remained devoted To the Maharishi

[00:23:54] Dennis Wilson however Wasn't fazed It just meant more time In LA for partying Women And drugs Shortly after Charlie's return Bobby Beausole Visited with his girlfriend Gail And another woman Catherine Cher Soon nicknamed Gypsy Bobby now working In the adult film industry Was still liked by Charlie But his arrogance Put off some of the girls Gypsy however Immediately connected With the group She was a talented musician

[00:24:24] And drawn to Charlie's Devotion to music Though she wasn't Quite ready to leave Bobby Charlie Recognizing her potential As a recruiter Didn't push too hard He had no intention Of alienating Beausoleil Besides With the group Growing to around 20 Charlie already had Plenty of followers To scrounge food Panhandle And keep the operation Running By now Charlie had been Back in LA For nearly six months Still chasing a record deal His mistake He believed

[00:24:53] Was trusting a Mid-level executive At Universal Someone who wasn't A musician And couldn't recognize Real talent What Charlie needed Was a rock star Someone with influence Who could get him Signed instantly Determined He sent his girls Out as scouts Not to recruit More followers But to find musicians Who might listen To his music It was a welcome Change from panhandling Or digging through Dumpsters One spring day Pat and Yeller Hit the strip To hitchhike

[00:25:22] Almost immediately A tall handsome man Pulled up Offering a ride But first He invited them Back to his place For milk and cookies The girls eagerly Agreed Their driver Dennis Wilson Of the Beach Boys The exact kind Of patron Charlie had been Hoping for Next time on Crime Time Inc We find out How Charlie and The family Ended up living At a Beach Boys House And Charlie's Elusive pursuit

[00:25:52] Of a record deal But in the meantime Here are our Two crime experts Simon and Tom To discuss this week's episode Thanks Alex That was another Tremendous episode The amount of detail That he's putting in here For us Tom Is quite incredible Isn't it? It's wonderful And Alex You're our first class Storyteller I will give you that Super And can I just apologise We will pronounce Your name properly It's just us Scots We tend to Alec and Alex But we hear you

[00:26:22] And it's Alex And we're very grateful To you For fantastically Detailed research Painting a picture And a wonderful description Of what life was like In the Manson family And we can see The pressure building You can actually See Charlie Getting more manipulative And his plan Coming together And you can see Him building The number of people He's attracting To 20 followers That's something Simon It really is Yeah

[00:26:50] Tom it's interesting You had troubles With the names With Alex It's usually through Here in the west We just call everybody Jimmy And it gets us Round that Quite nicely Big Jimmy Or wee Jimmy Yeah Anybody over 5 foot 8 Is big man I was fascinated By this whole thing Of living in the fringes I came across it Several times Working and living In the county As we would call it In the countryside With people living On the fringes Like that

[00:27:19] Charles Manson Decided to do And he decided To do deliberately A few times As we learn in this episode To get away From the mainstream He didn't want his Family influenced By outsiders Who might have Other thoughts Or tell them The truth So he was very careful To keep them On the fringes Of cities Panhandling And getting food From wherever they can It was some system They had going Wasn't it Yeah it was A perfect fraudster We talked about Jones The murderer

[00:27:49] The poisoner Who took people away To Central America And then fed them all Kool-Aid Which was laced With poison Yeah You can see that Jonestown Jonestown You can see that Kind of spiritual Pitch Can't you This One thing Simon Was the remarkable Story Of Angela Lansbury What struck me About that was She obviously saw Her kid being Dragged into The Charlie Manson gang And took the most Extraordinary

[00:28:19] Actions to avoid it By uprooting her family And taking them To the remotest Part of Ireland She could find I thought it was A remarkably brave Thing to do It turns out That it was A remarkably Right thing to do But how many people Could afford to do that It shows you The power of drugs Even with her resources And we've seen it With many rock stars And their offspring Over the years Who have been unable To save from the Clutches of drugs Which plays right Into my narrative To regulate drugs

[00:28:48] So that we do Have some control Because drugs Are very powerful We tend to think That it's kind of Black and white And I'm speaking From personal knowledge Here because I'm taking drugs Just now After my operation Post-op But they're very Very powerful things That I can't understand Why we don't want To have control of them Instead of letting People use them For nefarious purposes Like Charles Manson And many others Have done Yeah I think I'm broadly in agreement With your view on drugs

[00:29:17] I've got one or two Reservations about Some of the consequences Or the potential consequences But there's no question That people who see drugs As simply a bad habit Really don't know What they're talking about Yeah Control And it's all about Control And what fascinated me Was the fact That he's actually Picking people For specific things So he picks A good looking girl Because he knows That if he can Use a good looking girl He can use that To lure other people in

[00:29:47] Yeah He decides he's got Too many women So he needs some men And so it's really Calculating He's spinning so many Plates isn't he At the same time There's a real genius In here Tom we've said this Before on Crime Time Inc Sometimes Some of the criminals That we talk about And I know That we're both the same We've met criminals Over the course Of our careers Who were very clever They were very charming They were the epitome Of manners

[00:30:15] They were so well dressed And so well turned out And you could take them Into any company And yet at their heart They were just crooks Yeah that's right Interesting Charlie wants to Give this impression Of being completely selfless So he'll give away A car He'll make a gesture Of giving away a car And of course He depersonalises these people By using nicknames And that's a very clever Device as well And you see that in gangs Where they depersonalise People And make sure

[00:30:44] That they are only seen As part of the organisation But Alex's narrative Shows that He's reverting To domestic violence And that The veil slips Now and again And Charlie shows himself In his true colours It's interesting That we're talking About that manipulation And how smart He must have been How convincing He must have been The 14 year old girl Diane Lake Her parents let her go And be part of this Entourage So there was something Very powerful That he was doing

[00:31:14] And that he had contrived To make look legitimate In some way The episode Is absolutely Packed full of information Isn't it Of all sorts Because you've used The word before That describes What was going on The melting pot That was going on In society At that time And particularly In the USA The Vietnam War Etc It really was An environment For this to take place It was Simon And you know What intrigues me Is that All of this Was in the background

[00:31:43] And you get the feeling That actually It was the background That was incubating People like Charlie Manson And looking at The news now Today All these years later And seeing The trouble win In all sorts of areas With war And political upheaval You just wonder What might be Being incubated Right now As we speak I say again Alex I like to go Into detail And I write In detail About old cases I'll tell you what Alec You have

[00:32:12] Really done A fantastic Deep dive job here Absolutely super Can't wait For the next one Tom You've been listening To Crime Time Inc Where the investigation Never truly ends If you liked this episode Please listen to some more And it would really help us If you left a comment On whatever platform You're listening to this on Thank you Our team respects The victims of these crimes And their families

[00:32:40] This podcast is produced With the intention To educate And bring clarity To complex cases That have shaped Our criminal justice system Crime Time Inc Is hosted by Former detectives Simon McLean And Tom Wood And our research team Verifies all case information Presented in this series Visit CrimeTimeInc.com For more information About us Join us next time For another great True crime episode We'll see you next time Bye bye Bye bye .